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	<title>
	Comments on: Can one be a good Latter-day-Saint and support gay marriage and abortion?	</title>
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	<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/</link>
	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2021 03:20:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Michael Jensen		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-32139</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Jensen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-32139</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[From a recent ask gramps response to tithing: “And
I ask you as well, who are we to determine how the Lord will spend His funds?
Are we called to make that determination? Do we have the authority or spiritual
link to claim superior knowledge and understanding concerning the Lord’s will
as to His kingdom on the earth.

There has been a fair amount of controversy, for
example, in the recent past over the downtown Salt Lake shopping mall. Many
accusations have sprung up around the web against the Church and the use of its
funds. But I have to wonder, why is consideration never given to the idea that
it was the Lord’s will. Somehow many of us seem to think we know better than
the prophet, better than the apostles. Somehow we think ourselves more
enlightened, more holy, and more in tune with God’s true will.

But we are not. Let’s show a bit of faith here
that God is leading His Church. Let’s trust and sustain those He has chosen to
do so, in both their efforts on the spiritual front and the temporal front of
God’s kingdom.”

I think the same principles apply here too. In
my mind at least, it is an incredibly slippery slope for a faithful latter-day
saint to say that they keep the law of chastity, and then to endorse and
campaign for others to break that same law. Truth is truth, any part of it
cannot be set aside or ignored. In the words of Elder Holland: “At the
zenith of His mortal ministry, Jesus said, “Love one another, as I have loved
you.” To make certain they understood exactly what kind of love that was, He
said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” and “whosoever … shall break
one of [the] least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall
be … the least in the kingdom of heaven.” Christlike love is the greatest
need we have on this planet in part because righteousness was always supposed
to accompany it. So if love is to be our watchword, as it must be, then
by the word of Him who is love personified, we must forsake transgression and any hint of advocacy for it in others[emphasis
added]. Jesus clearly understood what many in our modern culture seem to
forget: that there is a crucial difference between the commandment to forgive
sin (which He had an infinite capacity to do) and the warning against condoning
it (which He never ever did even once).” 

And in one my favorite talks by Elder Holland: “When we face such situations
in complex social issues in a democratic society, it can be very challenging
and, to some, confusing. Young people may ask about this position taken or that
policy made by the Church, saying: “Well, we don’t believe we should live or
behave in such and such a way, but why do we have to make other people do the
same? Don’t they have their free agency? Aren’t we being self-righteous and
judgmental, forcing our beliefs on others, demanding that they act in a
certain way?” In those situations you are going to have to explain sensitively
why some principles are defended and some sins opposed wherever
they are found because the issues and the laws involved are not just
social or political but eternal in their consequence. And while not wishing to
offend those who believe differently from us, we are even more anxious not to
offend God, or as the scripture says, “not offend him who is your lawgiver”  —and I am
speaking here of serious moral laws..... My young friends, there is a wide
variety of beliefs in this world, and there is moral agency for all, but no one
is entitled to act as if God is mute on these subjects or as if commandments
only matter if there is public agreement over them.”

And from Elder Anderson: “This past month the First Presidency and the
Quorum of the Twelve published a letter to leaders of the Church across the
world. In part it read: “Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change
the moral law that God has established. God
expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions
or trends in society.(emphasis added) His law of chastity is clear: sexual
relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and
lawfully wedded as husband and wife. We urge you to review … the doctrine
contained in ‘The Family: A Proclamation to the World.’”

Why are we here on Earth? Mortality is just a
drop in the bucket compared to what’s ahead...We are here to prepare to meet
God, and I would hope, help others to do the same. I’ve pondered this topic for
a long time. This is a matter of eternal significance..... and I think that the
prophets have made it pretty clear what the mind and will of the Lord is about
it. From the Teachings of the Presidents of the Church manual for Joseph Smith:
“William G. Nelson reported: “I have
heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him
say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the
majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never
be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.””]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a recent ask gramps response to tithing: “And<br />
I ask you as well, who are we to determine how the Lord will spend His funds?<br />
Are we called to make that determination? Do we have the authority or spiritual<br />
link to claim superior knowledge and understanding concerning the Lord’s will<br />
as to His kingdom on the earth.</p>
<p>There has been a fair amount of controversy, for<br />
example, in the recent past over the downtown Salt Lake shopping mall. Many<br />
accusations have sprung up around the web against the Church and the use of its<br />
funds. But I have to wonder, why is consideration never given to the idea that<br />
it was the Lord’s will. Somehow many of us seem to think we know better than<br />
the prophet, better than the apostles. Somehow we think ourselves more<br />
enlightened, more holy, and more in tune with God’s true will.</p>
<p>But we are not. Let’s show a bit of faith here<br />
that God is leading His Church. Let’s trust and sustain those He has chosen to<br />
do so, in both their efforts on the spiritual front and the temporal front of<br />
God’s kingdom.”</p>
<p>I think the same principles apply here too. In<br />
my mind at least, it is an incredibly slippery slope for a faithful latter-day<br />
saint to say that they keep the law of chastity, and then to endorse and<br />
campaign for others to break that same law. Truth is truth, any part of it<br />
cannot be set aside or ignored. In the words of Elder Holland: “At the<br />
zenith of His mortal ministry, Jesus said, “Love one another, as I have loved<br />
you.” To make certain they understood exactly what kind of love that was, He<br />
said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” and “whosoever … shall break<br />
one of [the] least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall<br />
be … the least in the kingdom of heaven.” Christlike love is the greatest<br />
need we have on this planet in part because righteousness was always supposed<br />
to accompany it. So if love is to be our watchword, as it must be, then<br />
by the word of Him who is love personified, we must forsake transgression and any hint of advocacy for it in others[emphasis<br />
added]. Jesus clearly understood what many in our modern culture seem to<br />
forget: that there is a crucial difference between the commandment to forgive<br />
sin (which He had an infinite capacity to do) and the warning against condoning<br />
it (which He never ever did even once).” </p>
<p>And in one my favorite talks by Elder Holland: “When we face such situations<br />
in complex social issues in a democratic society, it can be very challenging<br />
and, to some, confusing. Young people may ask about this position taken or that<br />
policy made by the Church, saying: “Well, we don’t believe we should live or<br />
behave in such and such a way, but why do we have to make other people do the<br />
same? Don’t they have their free agency? Aren’t we being self-righteous and<br />
judgmental, forcing our beliefs on others, demanding that they act in a<br />
certain way?” In those situations you are going to have to explain sensitively<br />
why some principles are defended and some sins opposed wherever<br />
they are found because the issues and the laws involved are not just<br />
social or political but eternal in their consequence. And while not wishing to<br />
offend those who believe differently from us, we are even more anxious not to<br />
offend God, or as the scripture says, “not offend him who is your lawgiver”  —and I am<br />
speaking here of serious moral laws&#8230;.. My young friends, there is a wide<br />
variety of beliefs in this world, and there is moral agency for all, but no one<br />
is entitled to act as if God is mute on these subjects or as if commandments<br />
only matter if there is public agreement over them.”</p>
<p>And from Elder Anderson: “This past month the First Presidency and the<br />
Quorum of the Twelve published a letter to leaders of the Church across the<br />
world. In part it read: “Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change<br />
the moral law that God has established. God<br />
expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions<br />
or trends in society.(emphasis added) His law of chastity is clear: sexual<br />
relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and<br />
lawfully wedded as husband and wife. We urge you to review … the doctrine<br />
contained in ‘The Family: A Proclamation to the World.’”</p>
<p>Why are we here on Earth? Mortality is just a<br />
drop in the bucket compared to what’s ahead&#8230;We are here to prepare to meet<br />
God, and I would hope, help others to do the same. I’ve pondered this topic for<br />
a long time. This is a matter of eternal significance&#8230;.. and I think that the<br />
prophets have made it pretty clear what the mind and will of the Lord is about<br />
it. From the Teachings of the Presidents of the Church manual for Joseph Smith:<br />
“William G. Nelson reported: “I have<br />
heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him<br />
say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the<br />
majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never<br />
be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.””</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: paul		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-31981</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2014 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-31981</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the issue here is what is a &quot;good member&quot;.  As long as one does not make too public/active of a role in these issues, they can probably still get a temple recommend (this would hinge on how the leader/inerviewer interprets the question about affiliating with groups out of harmony with the gospel).  Merely being in a political party that supports such things is not enough.  Perhaps joining an abortion rights group, or a pro-gay marriage group comes closer to crossing that line.  If by good member you mean that one is completely in line with official church teaching, then that answer is pretty clear (see Robert&#039;s comment).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the issue here is what is a &#8220;good member&#8221;.  As long as one does not make too public/active of a role in these issues, they can probably still get a temple recommend (this would hinge on how the leader/inerviewer interprets the question about affiliating with groups out of harmony with the gospel).  Merely being in a political party that supports such things is not enough.  Perhaps joining an abortion rights group, or a pro-gay marriage group comes closer to crossing that line.  If by good member you mean that one is completely in line with official church teaching, then that answer is pretty clear (see Robert&#8217;s comment).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Kenneth		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-31907</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-31907</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Gramps!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Gramps!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-31869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2014 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-31869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Proclamation to the Family, as well as the scriptures, have already very directly answered this question.  Further, both of them were recently and very directly reaffirmed in General Confererences.  The church does indeed have an official stance on this issue, and it has been offered in no uncertain terms multiple times.  No, we ar enot t be directed in all things.  But we have on this topic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Proclamation to the Family, as well as the scriptures, have already very directly answered this question.  Further, both of them were recently and very directly reaffirmed in General Confererences.  The church does indeed have an official stance on this issue, and it has been offered in no uncertain terms multiple times.  No, we ar enot t be directed in all things.  But we have on this topic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Nicolas Anguiano		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-31863</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nicolas Anguiano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2014 17:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-31863</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For better or worse, in this time of the history, religious and civil powers have separated. This to me is a very wise thing, since as Gramps said, one can be free to follow civil laws without denying heavenly laws. 
A guy couple should be able to marry by the civil laws, if a country&#039;s laws allow it. However, gay couples should never be able to marry in God&#039;s temples, because heavenly laws don&#039;t allow it. 
Regarding abortion, the issue is quite different since it involves a human life. It should never be legal because it&#039;s akin to legalizing a type of murder. Giving the unwanted child into adoption would be the wisest thing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For better or worse, in this time of the history, religious and civil powers have separated. This to me is a very wise thing, since as Gramps said, one can be free to follow civil laws without denying heavenly laws.<br />
A guy couple should be able to marry by the civil laws, if a country&#8217;s laws allow it. However, gay couples should never be able to marry in God&#8217;s temples, because heavenly laws don&#8217;t allow it.<br />
Regarding abortion, the issue is quite different since it involves a human life. It should never be legal because it&#8217;s akin to legalizing a type of murder. Giving the unwanted child into adoption would be the wisest thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Joy		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/can-one-good-latter-day-saint-support-gay-marriage-abortion/#comment-31859</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2014 03:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=23900#comment-31859</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m so glad you didn&#039;t answer this directly. I think this is a good instance of people NOT needing to be directed in all things. And I think that had you said one friend was right and the other wrong it would have ruined a friendship and wouldn&#039;t have fostered a relationship based on love, kindness, understanding and compassion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad you didn&#8217;t answer this directly. I think this is a good instance of people NOT needing to be directed in all things. And I think that had you said one friend was right and the other wrong it would have ruined a friendship and wouldn&#8217;t have fostered a relationship based on love, kindness, understanding and compassion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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