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	Comments on: Why must one still suffer consequences if repentance and re-baptism have been done?	</title>
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	<link>https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/</link>
	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Douglas Self		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/#comment-35712</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas Self]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2017 01:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=35217#comment-35712</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We shouldn&#039;t conflate the forgiveness of the Church, where the disciplinary council decides the membership status of the &#039;offender&#039;, versus how &#039;forgiveness&#039; is obtained of the ones &#039;offended&#039;.  The Church exists to save souls, and will not, even when excommunication is the obvious &#039;remedy&#039;, unduly delay one&#039;s ability to avail themselves of Gospel blessings.  At least it SHOULDN&#039;T...whether it sometimes happens is for another discussion.

However, some things can&#039;t just be magically &#039;erased&#039; by a Church court. For example, if a man had battered his wife, and she called the police on him, and he&#039;s found guilty, he will have a criminal record that will dog him for LIFE, a misfortune that he brought upon himself.  In a case like that, he&#039;d have to fully satisfy the requirements of the Court (jail time, fines, counseling, restitution, and probation) BEFORE he could be rebaptized or given a temple recommend.  Even after that, he&#039;ll have a lifetime restriction under Federal law for firearms ownership, as one of the many enduring consequences of his thoughtless violence.  IDK if the Church would also annotate his membership to &#039;warn&#039; future bishops et al., but I wouldn&#039;t think it a bad idea to do so!  That&#039;s not a lack of forgiveness, that&#039;s a logical consequence of ensuring protection against someone that royally fouled up.

However, the problem is that we look at these problems in the context of THIS life, but in the eternal perspective, it&#039;s but the &#039;wink of an eye&#039;.  The promise that our sins shall be &#039;washed away&#039; is still in effect, for some, it takes a few more cycles...having rehabbed some clothing after a fire (not all successfully), I know all too well what&#039;s THAT&#039;S about!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We shouldn&#8217;t conflate the forgiveness of the Church, where the disciplinary council decides the membership status of the &#8216;offender&#8217;, versus how &#8216;forgiveness&#8217; is obtained of the ones &#8216;offended&#8217;.  The Church exists to save souls, and will not, even when excommunication is the obvious &#8216;remedy&#8217;, unduly delay one&#8217;s ability to avail themselves of Gospel blessings.  At least it SHOULDN&#8217;T&#8230;whether it sometimes happens is for another discussion.</p>
<p>However, some things can&#8217;t just be magically &#8216;erased&#8217; by a Church court. For example, if a man had battered his wife, and she called the police on him, and he&#8217;s found guilty, he will have a criminal record that will dog him for LIFE, a misfortune that he brought upon himself.  In a case like that, he&#8217;d have to fully satisfy the requirements of the Court (jail time, fines, counseling, restitution, and probation) BEFORE he could be rebaptized or given a temple recommend.  Even after that, he&#8217;ll have a lifetime restriction under Federal law for firearms ownership, as one of the many enduring consequences of his thoughtless violence.  IDK if the Church would also annotate his membership to &#8216;warn&#8217; future bishops et al., but I wouldn&#8217;t think it a bad idea to do so!  That&#8217;s not a lack of forgiveness, that&#8217;s a logical consequence of ensuring protection against someone that royally fouled up.</p>
<p>However, the problem is that we look at these problems in the context of THIS life, but in the eternal perspective, it&#8217;s but the &#8216;wink of an eye&#8217;.  The promise that our sins shall be &#8216;washed away&#8217; is still in effect, for some, it takes a few more cycles&#8230;having rehabbed some clothing after a fire (not all successfully), I know all too well what&#8217;s THAT&#8217;S about!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/#comment-34886</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=35217#comment-34886</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/#comment-34882&quot;&gt;Angelsings&lt;/a&gt;.

How does the Lord remembering our sins no more change the consequences of that sin being suffered in the lives of others?  I can jump out of a plane without a parachute.  On the way down I repent with all my soul for having done so.  But law has been in place from the foundation of the world, and I will still smash into the ground.  Having repented, the Lord will forgive me.  My loved ones will still suffer for my loss, but can be succored through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and have their sufferings assuaged.  The Atonement doesn&#039;t cancel eternal law.  It only provides a life buoy to survive and overcome its violation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/#comment-34882">Angelsings</a>.</p>
<p>How does the Lord remembering our sins no more change the consequences of that sin being suffered in the lives of others?  I can jump out of a plane without a parachute.  On the way down I repent with all my soul for having done so.  But law has been in place from the foundation of the world, and I will still smash into the ground.  Having repented, the Lord will forgive me.  My loved ones will still suffer for my loss, but can be succored through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and have their sufferings assuaged.  The Atonement doesn&#8217;t cancel eternal law.  It only provides a life buoy to survive and overcome its violation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Angelsings		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/must-one-still-suffer-consequences-repentance-re-baptism-done/#comment-34882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angelsings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=35217#comment-34882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is confusing &#038; contradicts Biblical Scripture which says that thou our sins be as scarlet, if we sincerely rwhicy of them, the Lord will remember them no more.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is confusing &amp; contradicts Biblical Scripture which says that thou our sins be as scarlet, if we sincerely rwhicy of them, the Lord will remember them no more.</p>
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