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	<title>
	Comments on: Should LDS acknowledge those who change genders by their new identity?	</title>
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	<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/</link>
	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Jed		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33965&quot;&gt;WD&lt;/a&gt;.

WD ....if you are a doctor and biologist ....Then you need to take some more genetics classes..... there are plenty of mutations that cause XXY and other such mutations in humans. Women can be born with all extetnal appearances as a women but have male gonads on the inside and no internal female organs. There is a plethora of such genetic mutations that exist..... so before you use ignorance as your soap box .... do some research and leave an intelligent answer for others instead of an opinion cited as fact!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33965">WD</a>.</p>
<p>WD &#8230;.if you are a doctor and biologist &#8230;.Then you need to take some more genetics classes&#8230;.. there are plenty of mutations that cause XXY and other such mutations in humans. Women can be born with all extetnal appearances as a women but have male gonads on the inside and no internal female organs. There is a plethora of such genetic mutations that exist&#8230;.. so before you use ignorance as your soap box &#8230;. do some research and leave an intelligent answer for others instead of an opinion cited as fact!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corinne Lehr		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33970</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corinne Lehr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33970</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[WD - what about syndromes such as Klinefelter which is XXY? Also, deficiencies such as aromatase or 5-alpha reductase can have profound effects on hormone levels and could affect someone&#039;s ability to perceive their gender. We certainly need to support the proclamation on the family, but compassion for those struggling with gender identity isn&#039;t unwarranted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WD &#8211; what about syndromes such as Klinefelter which is XXY? Also, deficiencies such as aromatase or 5-alpha reductase can have profound effects on hormone levels and could affect someone&#8217;s ability to perceive their gender. We certainly need to support the proclamation on the family, but compassion for those struggling with gender identity isn&#8217;t unwarranted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: WD		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33965</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2015 07:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33965</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a biologist and a doctor.  People cannot be born with two sexes. Your organs do not dictate sex. Biologically, every single cell in the human body is either XX or XY. XX are female cells and XY are male. No one can change the genetic makeup of trillions of cells by taking hormones, changing their hairstyle or cutting off body parts. If you biopsy cells from an individual and those cells are XX, then that person is a woman genetically. The same is true if the biopsied cells are XY, that person is a man genetically. I am a man and all of my 4 trillion cells have XY in their genes. Dysfunctional or malformed genitals at birth do not dictate gender. There is no third gender genetically. Your 4 trillion body cells have gender imbedded in each of them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a biologist and a doctor.  People cannot be born with two sexes. Your organs do not dictate sex. Biologically, every single cell in the human body is either XX or XY. XX are female cells and XY are male. No one can change the genetic makeup of trillions of cells by taking hormones, changing their hairstyle or cutting off body parts. If you biopsy cells from an individual and those cells are XX, then that person is a woman genetically. The same is true if the biopsied cells are XY, that person is a man genetically. I am a man and all of my 4 trillion cells have XY in their genes. Dysfunctional or malformed genitals at birth do not dictate gender. There is no third gender genetically. Your 4 trillion body cells have gender imbedded in each of them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Knutekritt		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33961</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Knutekritt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33961</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tough question!  I do recall a person who was hermaphrodite (both sexes with sterility both).  For years this person did not know for sure if she was male or female.  I remember that her parents hid her away somewhat, early on, due to extreme bullying and disrespect from children. After thousands of dollars of therapy and surgery, she elected to be female.  She was never able to get rid of some male characteristics, such as dark coarse facial hair, chest hair, etc..  These she waxed.  Her body shape was decidedly male, broad thick shoulders and slender hips.  Her hairline was very male.  The family only had money enough to remove the male sexual appendages.  She still reported after surgery not being sure if she should have been male or female.  She worries that God didn&#039;t love her, which her reason is being born this way.  She is not LDS...and she is also Christian.  Do we know for sure if every male and female Spirit are given correctly gendered vessels?  In her case it seemed to be a toss up in a very out front visible way.  Her name is Mary :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tough question!  I do recall a person who was hermaphrodite (both sexes with sterility both).  For years this person did not know for sure if she was male or female.  I remember that her parents hid her away somewhat, early on, due to extreme bullying and disrespect from children. After thousands of dollars of therapy and surgery, she elected to be female.  She was never able to get rid of some male characteristics, such as dark coarse facial hair, chest hair, etc..  These she waxed.  Her body shape was decidedly male, broad thick shoulders and slender hips.  Her hairline was very male.  The family only had money enough to remove the male sexual appendages.  She still reported after surgery not being sure if she should have been male or female.  She worries that God didn&#8217;t love her, which her reason is being born this way.  She is not LDS&#8230;and she is also Christian.  Do we know for sure if every male and female Spirit are given correctly gendered vessels?  In her case it seemed to be a toss up in a very out front visible way.  Her name is Mary :)</p>
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		<title>
		By: creative_dude		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[creative_dude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 06:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Abraham Lincoln gave freedom to American slaves.  It was not so.  The words were spoken, and the laws were passed but in the portion of the US where slavery had been accepted there was not freedom. Such a celestial item as freedom is not something that can be passed out even as a gift from the worst war ever fought on American soil.  Blacks had the vote briefly but the KKK and the restrictions on the vote put paid to that.

Over the next hundred years black people existed mostly in poverty or near poverty.  During this period the black family became an enormously strong institution.  Strong family bonds build strong culture.  A constant stream of examples (albeit on a mostly small scale) showed black people what they could do if given the opportunity.  There was black poverty but there was almost no black unemployment !  In World war 2 if you were a American bomber pilot you wanted the &quot;Red Tails&quot; around. If you do not know what that means it is a lack in your education.  The relieving forces at the &quot;Battle of the Bulge&quot; were the first time that white and black Americans both carried weapons as members of the same unit in battle in our American history.  It is a point of honor that my dad was there.

The people who started &quot;Brown vs School Board&quot; were not a group of people who scared easy. The  fight for freedom might have started When Abe issued the Emancipation Proclamation, but it took a long time. There were white people who helped but quite often their support was rather tepid. There were small numbers of actual heroes (a disproportionate number of Jews in their midst) (Freedom Riders) who pitched in but the bulk of the effort (and the bulk of the danger faced) came from the black community. It can truly be said that although it took old Abe to start it, the black community finished it. Blacks took their freedom.

And were promptly betrayed/betrayed themselves.  (I know, never start a sentence with a  &quot;and&#039;). If the struggle for the vote was Americans and black Americans against a entrenched party system (fairly true), than politicians who promptly made it about &#039;welfare&#039; stabbed that struggle in the back. &#039;Welfare&#039; has done more to destroy the black family than anything that has happened since slavery was ended.

We have hard working and successful black people in our nation. That it can be done does not fit the narrative and must be suppressed. Nurture is that important. The same genetic material that has produced slums and violence have produced outstanding people in every walk of life. This  is  something that those who desire power (in either political party) must suppress at all cost. Poor people poorly educated are the easiest to lead by the nose.

I apologize for my poorly expressed writing style, I am not glib with words. There is no such thing as Freedom without hard work. &quot;Things&quot; given for free are worth what we paid for them. Things worked for are earned and become a part of us.  

Just what does this have to do with the subject at hand ?  Not being careful about what we are talking about leads to disaster. I have watched as marriage has been hit hard, step by step by often well meaning people. “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” I remember when my Elders quorum president brought out the (then new) The Family: A Proclamation to the World, We were going to examine it in detail, to dig the meat out.  We came to the realization that it was all meat.  There was nothing in it that could be boiled down and condensed any further without losing something elsewhere.  Scripture. In the language of today.


I have no desire to throw something in someone&#039;s face.  Once the truth is stated it need not be belabored. If my beloved brothers and sisters who feel for whatever reason that they are differently gendered, or gay want to believe in this I will not argue about it. Politeness is in and of itself both a good thing and a necessary precondition to civilization. There is, however no need for me to pretend that I agree with them. A person deciding which restroom he wants to use based on what he feels like today ? No.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abraham Lincoln gave freedom to American slaves.  It was not so.  The words were spoken, and the laws were passed but in the portion of the US where slavery had been accepted there was not freedom. Such a celestial item as freedom is not something that can be passed out even as a gift from the worst war ever fought on American soil.  Blacks had the vote briefly but the KKK and the restrictions on the vote put paid to that.</p>
<p>Over the next hundred years black people existed mostly in poverty or near poverty.  During this period the black family became an enormously strong institution.  Strong family bonds build strong culture.  A constant stream of examples (albeit on a mostly small scale) showed black people what they could do if given the opportunity.  There was black poverty but there was almost no black unemployment !  In World war 2 if you were a American bomber pilot you wanted the &#8220;Red Tails&#8221; around. If you do not know what that means it is a lack in your education.  The relieving forces at the &#8220;Battle of the Bulge&#8221; were the first time that white and black Americans both carried weapons as members of the same unit in battle in our American history.  It is a point of honor that my dad was there.</p>
<p>The people who started &#8220;Brown vs School Board&#8221; were not a group of people who scared easy. The  fight for freedom might have started When Abe issued the Emancipation Proclamation, but it took a long time. There were white people who helped but quite often their support was rather tepid. There were small numbers of actual heroes (a disproportionate number of Jews in their midst) (Freedom Riders) who pitched in but the bulk of the effort (and the bulk of the danger faced) came from the black community. It can truly be said that although it took old Abe to start it, the black community finished it. Blacks took their freedom.</p>
<p>And were promptly betrayed/betrayed themselves.  (I know, never start a sentence with a  &#8220;and&#8217;). If the struggle for the vote was Americans and black Americans against a entrenched party system (fairly true), than politicians who promptly made it about &#8216;welfare&#8217; stabbed that struggle in the back. &#8216;Welfare&#8217; has done more to destroy the black family than anything that has happened since slavery was ended.</p>
<p>We have hard working and successful black people in our nation. That it can be done does not fit the narrative and must be suppressed. Nurture is that important. The same genetic material that has produced slums and violence have produced outstanding people in every walk of life. This  is  something that those who desire power (in either political party) must suppress at all cost. Poor people poorly educated are the easiest to lead by the nose.</p>
<p>I apologize for my poorly expressed writing style, I am not glib with words. There is no such thing as Freedom without hard work. &#8220;Things&#8221; given for free are worth what we paid for them. Things worked for are earned and become a part of us.  </p>
<p>Just what does this have to do with the subject at hand ?  Not being careful about what we are talking about leads to disaster. I have watched as marriage has been hit hard, step by step by often well meaning people. “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” I remember when my Elders quorum president brought out the (then new) The Family: A Proclamation to the World, We were going to examine it in detail, to dig the meat out.  We came to the realization that it was all meat.  There was nothing in it that could be boiled down and condensed any further without losing something elsewhere.  Scripture. In the language of today.</p>
<p>I have no desire to throw something in someone&#8217;s face.  Once the truth is stated it need not be belabored. If my beloved brothers and sisters who feel for whatever reason that they are differently gendered, or gay want to believe in this I will not argue about it. Politeness is in and of itself both a good thing and a necessary precondition to civilization. There is, however no need for me to pretend that I agree with them. A person deciding which restroom he wants to use based on what he feels like today ? No.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liz Perrott		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/should-lds-acknowledge-those-who-change-genders-by-their-new-identity/#comment-33955</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz Perrott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=31956#comment-33955</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would agree to most of this but there do seem to be some individuals who&#039;s personality and characteristics have always leant to wards the opposite gender and they have never felt comfortable in their biological gender. Now, in an ideal world it wouldn&#039;t need to result in gender realignment . They could live out what role they feel comfortable with irrespective of their genital arrangement.  I have come into contact with several male to female sex change recipients. It is very disconcerting to speak to a 6&#039;4 person in high heels and women&#039;s clothing that went out of fashion 30 years ago, speaking with a very deep masculine voice.  That seemed to me something other than feeling uncomfortable as a man. I will not judge someone else unless I have walked in their shoes.  At the end of the day if they live their lives in a decent way who are we to say what they have done is wrong?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree to most of this but there do seem to be some individuals who&#8217;s personality and characteristics have always leant to wards the opposite gender and they have never felt comfortable in their biological gender. Now, in an ideal world it wouldn&#8217;t need to result in gender realignment . They could live out what role they feel comfortable with irrespective of their genital arrangement.  I have come into contact with several male to female sex change recipients. It is very disconcerting to speak to a 6&#8217;4 person in high heels and women&#8217;s clothing that went out of fashion 30 years ago, speaking with a very deep masculine voice.  That seemed to me something other than feeling uncomfortable as a man. I will not judge someone else unless I have walked in their shoes.  At the end of the day if they live their lives in a decent way who are we to say what they have done is wrong?</p>
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