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	Comments on: Was Satan part of Heavenly Father&#8217;s original plan?	</title>
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	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		By: Gordon Lynn Brown		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-satan-part-of-heavenly-fathers-original-plan/#comment-34340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gordon Lynn Brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=33170#comment-34340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-satan-part-of-heavenly-fathers-original-plan/#comment-34337&quot;&gt;Liz Perrott&lt;/a&gt;.

Liz, I was hoping that &quot;Gramps&quot; would strive to answer your questions.  They are certainly good ones.  Before Gramps has an opportunity to jump in, I would like to disagree with a few of Gramps perspectives.  I cannot fathom God the Father as having to be in a position to amend His plan.  He is omniscient, which means He has all knowledge of all things past, present, and future.  Lucifer had his agency, which is an absolute requirement for eternal progression.  God the Father knew in advance of Lucifer&#039;s rebellion and that His Son Jehovah would rise to the occasion. 

Judas, not unlike Satan, had his agency.  He was known of God and that he would act as he did, thus betraying the Savior.  This too falls under the purview of God knowing all.

I believe that most folk are of the opinion that the parables dealing with lost sheep applies to &quot;Black Sheep,&quot; or saints who have lost their way (disfellowshipped, ex-communicated, or who have otherwise been declared anathema),  The parables that deal with lost sheep apply to each and every person born into this world and probably other worlds too.  Each one of us (well some more than others) come into the world; and if we live long enough, run a muck.  Hopefully, at some point there has to be a recognition that eating pig slop (sinning) is not such a great thing. Anyone who sins is a prodigal!  And since we all sin, we are all prodigals.  It is through the atonement of the Savior that those who recognize feeding-on-slop is not the way to go, and seek the Savior&#039;s atoning grace, and are received back into the fold/household.  Technically, and in the context of the parables, every one of us is a prodigal.

While I am on my rant, I would like to comment on two of the quotes from prophets.  First, Wilford Woodruff and his statement about a demon ratio of hundreds to one mortal should not be interpreted that each of us has a hundred demons working against us.  This would not be commensurate with the principal of justice and fairness.  Man cannot be tempted above his ability to resist.  I trust there are as many angels present with each of us as there are demons.

This next issue will more than likely stretch a few folk.  This relates to the statement by Joseph Fielding Smith.  It is reasonable to state that God was not responsible for the &quot;ejection&quot; of Satan and his crew.  As the spirits could not be in rebellion and abide the presence of God, they left of their own accord and where they were designated as spirits that were to receive bodies it is natural that they would come to this world.  See Brigham Young&#039;s quote above in Gramp&#039;s response.  Absolutely every facet of our existence is a gift from the Lord.  That includes our bodies and everything necessary to sustain them.  The Lord cannot sustain anything evil.  As such, the Lord could not provide rebellious spirits the opportunity to have physical bodies.  At the onset there was no way the demons could become like the Lord and return to heaven.  I suppose the use of the word &quot;punishment&quot; can be used, but to me that con-notates a deliberate action taken by the Lord, as opposed to a consequence of the actions of the rebellious spirits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-satan-part-of-heavenly-fathers-original-plan/#comment-34337">Liz Perrott</a>.</p>
<p>Liz, I was hoping that &#8220;Gramps&#8221; would strive to answer your questions.  They are certainly good ones.  Before Gramps has an opportunity to jump in, I would like to disagree with a few of Gramps perspectives.  I cannot fathom God the Father as having to be in a position to amend His plan.  He is omniscient, which means He has all knowledge of all things past, present, and future.  Lucifer had his agency, which is an absolute requirement for eternal progression.  God the Father knew in advance of Lucifer&#8217;s rebellion and that His Son Jehovah would rise to the occasion. </p>
<p>Judas, not unlike Satan, had his agency.  He was known of God and that he would act as he did, thus betraying the Savior.  This too falls under the purview of God knowing all.</p>
<p>I believe that most folk are of the opinion that the parables dealing with lost sheep applies to &#8220;Black Sheep,&#8221; or saints who have lost their way (disfellowshipped, ex-communicated, or who have otherwise been declared anathema),  The parables that deal with lost sheep apply to each and every person born into this world and probably other worlds too.  Each one of us (well some more than others) come into the world; and if we live long enough, run a muck.  Hopefully, at some point there has to be a recognition that eating pig slop (sinning) is not such a great thing. Anyone who sins is a prodigal!  And since we all sin, we are all prodigals.  It is through the atonement of the Savior that those who recognize feeding-on-slop is not the way to go, and seek the Savior&#8217;s atoning grace, and are received back into the fold/household.  Technically, and in the context of the parables, every one of us is a prodigal.</p>
<p>While I am on my rant, I would like to comment on two of the quotes from prophets.  First, Wilford Woodruff and his statement about a demon ratio of hundreds to one mortal should not be interpreted that each of us has a hundred demons working against us.  This would not be commensurate with the principal of justice and fairness.  Man cannot be tempted above his ability to resist.  I trust there are as many angels present with each of us as there are demons.</p>
<p>This next issue will more than likely stretch a few folk.  This relates to the statement by Joseph Fielding Smith.  It is reasonable to state that God was not responsible for the &#8220;ejection&#8221; of Satan and his crew.  As the spirits could not be in rebellion and abide the presence of God, they left of their own accord and where they were designated as spirits that were to receive bodies it is natural that they would come to this world.  See Brigham Young&#8217;s quote above in Gramp&#8217;s response.  Absolutely every facet of our existence is a gift from the Lord.  That includes our bodies and everything necessary to sustain them.  The Lord cannot sustain anything evil.  As such, the Lord could not provide rebellious spirits the opportunity to have physical bodies.  At the onset there was no way the demons could become like the Lord and return to heaven.  I suppose the use of the word &#8220;punishment&#8221; can be used, but to me that con-notates a deliberate action taken by the Lord, as opposed to a consequence of the actions of the rebellious spirits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liz Perrott		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-satan-part-of-heavenly-fathers-original-plan/#comment-34337</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz Perrott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=33170#comment-34337</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If there had to be an adversary of some kind, how does it follow that the adversary would be &#039; lost forever&#039;. The same with Judas. Someone had to betray Jesus so he would be given up for our sins to be forgiven, so how was Judas not forgiven  ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there had to be an adversary of some kind, how does it follow that the adversary would be &#8216; lost forever&#8217;. The same with Judas. Someone had to betray Jesus so he would be given up for our sins to be forgiven, so how was Judas not forgiven  ?</p>
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