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	<title>
	Comments on: Was the idea that Blacks were less valiant in the pre-existence ever true?	</title>
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	<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/</link>
	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Hayden		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-35099</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hayden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-35099</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34866&quot;&gt;Vickie&lt;/a&gt;.

One more comment, things never change for the better without some people bravely challenging those in authority that are teaching things that are wrong.  Members of the Church still view black skin and red skin negatively because the leadership has not fully dispelled the underlying reason that the problem exists in the first place.  The Church today clearly states that the people of color are not cursed and were not less valiant in the spirit world and acknowledge that those old teachings are untrue.  But many in the Church hold on to the old beliefs.   That is why it is so important to challenge ideas that are wrong.  And to keep challenging them until a complete change occurs.  There is much work left do on how the Saints view African blacks and Native Americans.  If you don&#039;t think so, just read the comments from good LDS people on the subject.  They mean well, but they are so wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34866">Vickie</a>.</p>
<p>One more comment, things never change for the better without some people bravely challenging those in authority that are teaching things that are wrong.  Members of the Church still view black skin and red skin negatively because the leadership has not fully dispelled the underlying reason that the problem exists in the first place.  The Church today clearly states that the people of color are not cursed and were not less valiant in the spirit world and acknowledge that those old teachings are untrue.  But many in the Church hold on to the old beliefs.   That is why it is so important to challenge ideas that are wrong.  And to keep challenging them until a complete change occurs.  There is much work left do on how the Saints view African blacks and Native Americans.  If you don&#8217;t think so, just read the comments from good LDS people on the subject.  They mean well, but they are so wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hayden		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-35097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hayden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-35097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34866&quot;&gt;Vickie&lt;/a&gt;.

Asking people to reframe from speaking on a subject is just of way of pushing the subject under the rug.  People have a right to voice their opinion.  And on this subject especially, it is important for people to voice their concerns.  It is an area that is not right.  It is wrong to discriminate against other people based on the color of their skin.  It is un-Christian, immoral and just plain wrong.  So you rebuking people that call out the Church on this issue, makes you complicit in this horribly wrong belief.  Someday those that have discriminated against people based on the color of their skin will have to answer to God.  And that includes Brigham Young.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34866">Vickie</a>.</p>
<p>Asking people to reframe from speaking on a subject is just of way of pushing the subject under the rug.  People have a right to voice their opinion.  And on this subject especially, it is important for people to voice their concerns.  It is an area that is not right.  It is wrong to discriminate against other people based on the color of their skin.  It is un-Christian, immoral and just plain wrong.  So you rebuking people that call out the Church on this issue, makes you complicit in this horribly wrong belief.  Someday those that have discriminated against people based on the color of their skin will have to answer to God.  And that includes Brigham Young.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SRR		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SRR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2016 14:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34813&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/a&gt;.

Many LDS still believe the priesthood ban was of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. Brigham Young was simply a racist and imposed his views on the Church. What a travesty. Dozens of generations of LDS were influenced by this false position and even though it was rescinded in 1978, many Saints continue to believe in the original divinity of the ban. What a shame. And the Mormon Church could put an end to that nonsense by fully apologizing for this error of history.

And you are one of those Saints that are holding on to a false narrative.  We cannot change the world without accepting the failures of the past.  You blame me for my position because you still believe in the divinity of the priesthood ban.  You are the one in the wrong here, not me.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/57241071-78/church-lds-says-mormon.html.csp]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34813">Sam</a>.</p>
<p>Many LDS still believe the priesthood ban was of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. Brigham Young was simply a racist and imposed his views on the Church. What a travesty. Dozens of generations of LDS were influenced by this false position and even though it was rescinded in 1978, many Saints continue to believe in the original divinity of the ban. What a shame. And the Mormon Church could put an end to that nonsense by fully apologizing for this error of history.</p>
<p>And you are one of those Saints that are holding on to a false narrative.  We cannot change the world without accepting the failures of the past.  You blame me for my position because you still believe in the divinity of the priesthood ban.  You are the one in the wrong here, not me.</p>
<p><a href="http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/57241071-78/church-lds-says-mormon.html.csp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/57241071-78/church-lds-says-mormon.html.csp</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Marie		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Before the 1978 announcement.  A Black man gave a talk at our stake conference.  He had a dream where he was in the temple standing in front of an embroidered curtain.  there was a book on a pedestal in the room and there were three men standing behind the curtain.  He was directed to read the book, and he read, &quot;The Black man shall not have the priesthood at this time.&quot;  He said the dream settled the question in his mind.  A few months later the ban was lifted.  It&#039;s interesting to know that many black people joined the church in spite of the ban, because they had a testimony of the gospel.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before the 1978 announcement.  A Black man gave a talk at our stake conference.  He had a dream where he was in the temple standing in front of an embroidered curtain.  there was a book on a pedestal in the room and there were three men standing behind the curtain.  He was directed to read the book, and he read, &#8220;The Black man shall not have the priesthood at this time.&#8221;  He said the dream settled the question in his mind.  A few months later the ban was lifted.  It&#8217;s interesting to know that many black people joined the church in spite of the ban, because they had a testimony of the gospel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vickie		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vickie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amazing how Elders Oaks and Holland have asked Saints to refrain speculating on this issue, yet those who insist that Brigham Young was a racist and that the policy was uninspired are the ones who most loudly proclaim their ignorant and hateful opinions. Amazing, but unsurprising.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing how Elders Oaks and Holland have asked Saints to refrain speculating on this issue, yet those who insist that Brigham Young was a racist and that the policy was uninspired are the ones who most loudly proclaim their ignorant and hateful opinions. Amazing, but unsurprising.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michelle Mills		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34852</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Mills]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34852</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34733&quot;&gt;Sofia&lt;/a&gt;.

THANK YOU for being strong despite people&#039;s comments.  Thank you for holding onto the gospel.  When I think of being in front of the Savior, HE WILL put his arms around ALL of HIS children and love us all unconditionally.  I know hurtful things are said in and out of the church all the time.  I am so glad you both have stayed faithful and strong and didn&#039;t let those comments tear you down and focused on your relationship with God and Christ.  All those wrongs will be made right one day.  I am so sorry hurtful things were said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34733">Sofia</a>.</p>
<p>THANK YOU for being strong despite people&#8217;s comments.  Thank you for holding onto the gospel.  When I think of being in front of the Savior, HE WILL put his arms around ALL of HIS children and love us all unconditionally.  I know hurtful things are said in and out of the church all the time.  I am so glad you both have stayed faithful and strong and didn&#8217;t let those comments tear you down and focused on your relationship with God and Christ.  All those wrongs will be made right one day.  I am so sorry hurtful things were said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michelle Mills		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34851</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Mills]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34851</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34762&quot;&gt;Nanci Dickerman&lt;/a&gt;.

Beautiful!!!  Thank you for your beautiful testimony and strength!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34762">Nanci Dickerman</a>.</p>
<p>Beautiful!!!  Thank you for your beautiful testimony and strength!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34733&quot;&gt;Sofia&lt;/a&gt;.

I was born and raised in the church, and am a Native American. As I read the paper disavowing the old theories I couldn&#039;t help feel left out. It tactfully avoids all references to &quot;Lamanites.&quot; Though no one now even knows where the Lamanites are hiding thanks to advances in DNA, I was treated as a Lamanite as a child. Much harder on a child being told things. Be grateful no one could force him to stay in the room and listen. So sorry to hear it happened to him, but more impressed by him than anything. :) ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34733">Sofia</a>.</p>
<p>I was born and raised in the church, and am a Native American. As I read the paper disavowing the old theories I couldn&#8217;t help feel left out. It tactfully avoids all references to &#8220;Lamanites.&#8221; Though no one now even knows where the Lamanites are hiding thanks to advances in DNA, I was treated as a Lamanite as a child. Much harder on a child being told things. Be grateful no one could force him to stay in the room and listen. So sorry to hear it happened to him, but more impressed by him than anything. :) </p>
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		<title>
		By: SRR		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34815</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SRR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34815</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34813&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/a&gt;.

Pride has nothing to do with it.  The pride is with the Church that is unwilling to apologize for a mistake that was made in the past.  They renounced it but fell fall short of an apology.  I find it unbelievable that the membership at large will accept being lied to for over a 130 years as no big deal.  Pride - give me a break.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34813">Sam</a>.</p>
<p>Pride has nothing to do with it.  The pride is with the Church that is unwilling to apologize for a mistake that was made in the past.  They renounced it but fell fall short of an apology.  I find it unbelievable that the membership at large will accept being lied to for over a 130 years as no big deal.  Pride &#8211; give me a break.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sam		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34813</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2016 04:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34813</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34800&quot;&gt;SRR&lt;/a&gt;.

Sounds like you have your answer and are not wanting to hear anything different than what your perceived answer is in your mind. Pride is a tough thing to get over. I believe it wouldn&#039;t matter what anyone says or if the Lord Himself told us the answer, you would still have your answer.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34800">SRR</a>.</p>
<p>Sounds like you have your answer and are not wanting to hear anything different than what your perceived answer is in your mind. Pride is a tough thing to get over. I believe it wouldn&#8217;t matter what anyone says or if the Lord Himself told us the answer, you would still have your answer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tiffiney		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34812</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tiffiney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34812</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34736&quot;&gt;SRR&lt;/a&gt;.

Brothers and sisters members in the south lived through very dangerous times all through the years of slavery and up til the early 70s. I believe that it was because of this that our black brethren couldn&#039;t hold the priesthood. It would have been very dangerous for them especially in the south. There are times when prophets speak from revelation and times when they are offering an opinion. It is up to us to pray and the spirit will speak and we will know the difference. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34736">SRR</a>.</p>
<p>Brothers and sisters members in the south lived through very dangerous times all through the years of slavery and up til the early 70s. I believe that it was because of this that our black brethren couldn&#8217;t hold the priesthood. It would have been very dangerous for them especially in the south. There are times when prophets speak from revelation and times when they are offering an opinion. It is up to us to pray and the spirit will speak and we will know the difference. </p>
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		<title>
		By: PMW		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34811</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PMW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34727#comment-34811</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34796&quot;&gt;Always Thinking&lt;/a&gt;.

It would be impossible to determine which messages come from God, &#038; which from man, because God always speaks through people.  No matter how intelligent, knowledgeable, &#038; charismatic leaders are, they can still be mistaken, deluded, or venal.  The only answer is for everyone to grow up: be less trusting &#038; naïve, &#038; more sceptical &#038; discerning.  We must follow our own consciences, &#038; take personal responsibility for what we choose to believe, &#038; for what we allow our children to be taught.  Better that we make our own mistakes, than someone else&#039;s.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/was-the-idea-that-blacks-were-less-valiant-in-the-pre-existence-ever-true/#comment-34796">Always Thinking</a>.</p>
<p>It would be impossible to determine which messages come from God, &amp; which from man, because God always speaks through people.  No matter how intelligent, knowledgeable, &amp; charismatic leaders are, they can still be mistaken, deluded, or venal.  The only answer is for everyone to grow up: be less trusting &amp; naïve, &amp; more sceptical &amp; discerning.  We must follow our own consciences, &amp; take personal responsibility for what we choose to believe, &amp; for what we allow our children to be taught.  Better that we make our own mistakes, than someone else&#8217;s.</p>
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