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	Comments on: Why are there so many different versions of the Joseph Smith’s “first vision”?	</title>
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	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		By: Ryan		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/why-are-there-so-many-different-versions-of-the-joseph/#comment-33939</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Interesting that you began your reply by backhandedly insulting the questioner as one of a majority of people in the world who believe &quot;everything they read simply because they see it in print.&quot; It astounds you that people believe &quot;everything&quot; they read, does it? How many things do YOU accept as true (literally or otherwise) simply because you saw them in your books/scriptures or heard a church leader say them during a general conference? 

Anyhow, since we are not to believe anything but Joseph Smith&#039;s own first-hand accounts, please share your thoughts on his handwritten notes regarding &quot;the first vision&quot; that appear on the LDS Church&#039;s own website, josephsmithpapers.org. Search for &quot;history, circa summer 1832.&quot; When I read his writings, which wasn&#039;t that easy to do given spelling and grammatical errors (which I quickly admit aren&#039;t requirements for being called of God but are requirements of communicating clearly), I was intrigued by the way he worded his vision. He made no mention of a dark power battling against him so that he wouldn&#039;t be able to utter his prayer. &quot;He wasn&#039;t writing the entire vision down at this time,&quot; you might say. All right, fair enough. What&#039;s even stranger to me is the way he refers to God and the Lord interchangeably and describes only seeing one &quot;godlike&quot; being, who addresses him as &quot;son&quot; and identifies himself as the one who was &quot;crucifyed&quot; for the world. Sounded more like he was visited by a catholic/trinity version of God than the one I was instructed to share during my mission.

In the version I was told to memorize and share with investigators during my time as a missionary for the church, God AND Jesus Christ appeared, God pointed to Jesus and said, &quot;Joseph, this is my beloved son, hear him...&quot; Very specific, very grammatically and mechanically correct, and very clear as to who was there and what was said.

One more thought. Let&#039;s say, Gramps, that tomorrow night you received a vision in which you saw &quot;Heavenly Father&quot; and Jesus Christ. How long would it take you to forget the exact day on which that took place? How long would it take you to write the experience down or tell someone else who would write the experience down. I know (from your reply) that quill pens really made it difficult to record communications from the creator of the universe and all, but seriously, how long would it have taken you to record it? Lastly, how long would it take you to give a few more accounts that differ from that original one? If you had seen two &quot;personages,&quot; wouldn&#039;t every account have made that crystal clear? I know MINE would have. His OWN differing versions wouldn&#039;t pass muster in a court of law or even with a street beat cop taking witness testimonies on a mugging. 

I do realize that with people of your mindset, it&#039;s &quot;astounding&quot; how doubtful others can be. I also realize, too, that someone nearing the end of his life might be very hesitant to actually look objectively and think or reason about things he&#039;s taken as absolute gospel truth since his childhood. Who wants to feel, 1, 2, 3 years before they die, that they had gotten it wrong their entire lives? So, if Joseph Smith&#039;s OWN differing accounts (don&#039;t blame it on secondhand reports or quill pens) don&#039;t bother you, if it doesn&#039;t bother you that he sealed himself to women who were ALREADY married, and if it doesn&#039;t bother you that authorities within the church routinely make promises and &quot;prophecies&quot;  that DO NOT come to pass (perhaps not publicly, but often in settings with young missionaries who may be disillusioned and may just need an extra little support and morale), godspeed and happy living. Oh, and let me add that my doubts as to the veracity and actuality of Joseph Smith&#039;s claims do NOT mean that I don&#039;t believe in following the teachings and principles of Jesus of Nazareth. Perhaps you, unlike many other fellow Mormons that I know, still have the ability to separate believing in Joseph Smith from worshiping Jesus Christ.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that you began your reply by backhandedly insulting the questioner as one of a majority of people in the world who believe &#8220;everything they read simply because they see it in print.&#8221; It astounds you that people believe &#8220;everything&#8221; they read, does it? How many things do YOU accept as true (literally or otherwise) simply because you saw them in your books/scriptures or heard a church leader say them during a general conference? </p>
<p>Anyhow, since we are not to believe anything but Joseph Smith&#8217;s own first-hand accounts, please share your thoughts on his handwritten notes regarding &#8220;the first vision&#8221; that appear on the LDS Church&#8217;s own website, josephsmithpapers.org. Search for &#8220;history, circa summer 1832.&#8221; When I read his writings, which wasn&#8217;t that easy to do given spelling and grammatical errors (which I quickly admit aren&#8217;t requirements for being called of God but are requirements of communicating clearly), I was intrigued by the way he worded his vision. He made no mention of a dark power battling against him so that he wouldn&#8217;t be able to utter his prayer. &#8220;He wasn&#8217;t writing the entire vision down at this time,&#8221; you might say. All right, fair enough. What&#8217;s even stranger to me is the way he refers to God and the Lord interchangeably and describes only seeing one &#8220;godlike&#8221; being, who addresses him as &#8220;son&#8221; and identifies himself as the one who was &#8220;crucifyed&#8221; for the world. Sounded more like he was visited by a catholic/trinity version of God than the one I was instructed to share during my mission.</p>
<p>In the version I was told to memorize and share with investigators during my time as a missionary for the church, God AND Jesus Christ appeared, God pointed to Jesus and said, &#8220;Joseph, this is my beloved son, hear him&#8230;&#8221; Very specific, very grammatically and mechanically correct, and very clear as to who was there and what was said.</p>
<p>One more thought. Let&#8217;s say, Gramps, that tomorrow night you received a vision in which you saw &#8220;Heavenly Father&#8221; and Jesus Christ. How long would it take you to forget the exact day on which that took place? How long would it take you to write the experience down or tell someone else who would write the experience down. I know (from your reply) that quill pens really made it difficult to record communications from the creator of the universe and all, but seriously, how long would it have taken you to record it? Lastly, how long would it take you to give a few more accounts that differ from that original one? If you had seen two &#8220;personages,&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t every account have made that crystal clear? I know MINE would have. His OWN differing versions wouldn&#8217;t pass muster in a court of law or even with a street beat cop taking witness testimonies on a mugging. </p>
<p>I do realize that with people of your mindset, it&#8217;s &#8220;astounding&#8221; how doubtful others can be. I also realize, too, that someone nearing the end of his life might be very hesitant to actually look objectively and think or reason about things he&#8217;s taken as absolute gospel truth since his childhood. Who wants to feel, 1, 2, 3 years before they die, that they had gotten it wrong their entire lives? So, if Joseph Smith&#8217;s OWN differing accounts (don&#8217;t blame it on secondhand reports or quill pens) don&#8217;t bother you, if it doesn&#8217;t bother you that he sealed himself to women who were ALREADY married, and if it doesn&#8217;t bother you that authorities within the church routinely make promises and &#8220;prophecies&#8221;  that DO NOT come to pass (perhaps not publicly, but often in settings with young missionaries who may be disillusioned and may just need an extra little support and morale), godspeed and happy living. Oh, and let me add that my doubts as to the veracity and actuality of Joseph Smith&#8217;s claims do NOT mean that I don&#8217;t believe in following the teachings and principles of Jesus of Nazareth. Perhaps you, unlike many other fellow Mormons that I know, still have the ability to separate believing in Joseph Smith from worshiping Jesus Christ.</p>
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