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	Comments on: Why did Christ have to atone for our sins? Why can&#8217;t we just do it ourselves?	</title>
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	<link>https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/</link>
	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		<title>
		By: FKarminski		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34691</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FKarminski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34495#comment-34691</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your question is a very good one.  There is an answer.  As already commented, I would highly recommend listening to Cleon Skousen&#039;s audio tape called &quot;The Atonement&quot;.   Listen to it prayerfully several times.   I will seek to give you a quick answer without spending hours finding all the scriptural references; I will leave that for you.  This will be new - guaranteed; very few members of the Church really understand how the Atonement works.

 1.  All matter in the Universe has associated with it spirit and thus intelligence.  Intelligence acts and thus obeys God because it honors Him.  This intelligence has - among other things - agency and compassion.

 2.  There is no such thing as the &quot;Laws of Nature&quot; that are above God.  God gave matter the laws that it obeys; thus, our &quot;laws of physics&quot; are simply an uncovering of laws that God has given to mortal matter.  As an example, note that the laws that matter obeys within a resurrected being are different than the laws that matter obeys in a mortal being.  God commands the matter and it obeys because it honors Him; thus, the mystery of the miracle no long is.

 3.  God&#039;s power is His honor.  For example, when He creates an earth, He speaks to the matter, commanding it, and then watches until He is obeyed.  The matter honors God because He is all loving, all merciful, and completely just among other qualities.  Should He deviate from these qualities, He would cease to be God, because matter would no longer obey (honor) Him.

 4.  Heavenly Father loves us, His children, as much as does our Savior.  But to bring us home, he must satisfy the demands of justice, the jury of which consists of all the intelligences of the Universe.  If he tried to circumvent this, He would cease to be God.

 5.  Our Primary-level concept of the atonement consisting of a quid pro quo (so much sin requires so much
punishment) is biased from our economic and political systems and is not true as pertains to the Atonement.  Amulek stated that no man can pay for the sins of another.  As such, the Savior does not &quot;pay&quot; for our sins in a quid pro quo scenario, but as Paul states, He paid the price for our sins.  That is, through His suffering He triggered the compassion of all the elements in the Universe, such that mercy does not rob justice but satisfies its demands.

 6.  The demands of justice (i.e. of all the intelligences of the Universe) require that sinful people cannot rise to become gods unless:

 a.  They have a broken heart and contrite spirit and repent of all their sins the best they can.

 b.  Love God with all their hearts, might, and minds, and their neighbor as themselves, obeying all the ordinances and covenants of the Gospel.

 c.  The Savior, who suffered innocently the most horrible pains to the point of bleeding from every pore of His body, pleads before the Father to let those who believe in Him return home and become as they are.  This pleading is not for the Father&#039;s benefit; rather it triggers the compassion within the intelligences of the Universe, such that they say in essence: &quot;If they mean that much to you, Oh Jehovah, then let them come up and we will continue to honor you and the Father.&quot;

 That&#039;s how it works, not the quid pro quo reconciliation as is commonly understood.  I don&#039;t expect you to understand what I just presented.  It took me three times through Dr. Skousen&#039;s audio tape to begin to understand it.  Do get his tape and prayerfully ponder it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your question is a very good one.  There is an answer.  As already commented, I would highly recommend listening to Cleon Skousen&#8217;s audio tape called &#8220;The Atonement&#8221;.   Listen to it prayerfully several times.   I will seek to give you a quick answer without spending hours finding all the scriptural references; I will leave that for you.  This will be new &#8211; guaranteed; very few members of the Church really understand how the Atonement works.</p>
<p> 1.  All matter in the Universe has associated with it spirit and thus intelligence.  Intelligence acts and thus obeys God because it honors Him.  This intelligence has &#8211; among other things &#8211; agency and compassion.</p>
<p> 2.  There is no such thing as the &#8220;Laws of Nature&#8221; that are above God.  God gave matter the laws that it obeys; thus, our &#8220;laws of physics&#8221; are simply an uncovering of laws that God has given to mortal matter.  As an example, note that the laws that matter obeys within a resurrected being are different than the laws that matter obeys in a mortal being.  God commands the matter and it obeys because it honors Him; thus, the mystery of the miracle no long is.</p>
<p> 3.  God&#8217;s power is His honor.  For example, when He creates an earth, He speaks to the matter, commanding it, and then watches until He is obeyed.  The matter honors God because He is all loving, all merciful, and completely just among other qualities.  Should He deviate from these qualities, He would cease to be God, because matter would no longer obey (honor) Him.</p>
<p> 4.  Heavenly Father loves us, His children, as much as does our Savior.  But to bring us home, he must satisfy the demands of justice, the jury of which consists of all the intelligences of the Universe.  If he tried to circumvent this, He would cease to be God.</p>
<p> 5.  Our Primary-level concept of the atonement consisting of a quid pro quo (so much sin requires so much<br />
punishment) is biased from our economic and political systems and is not true as pertains to the Atonement.  Amulek stated that no man can pay for the sins of another.  As such, the Savior does not &#8220;pay&#8221; for our sins in a quid pro quo scenario, but as Paul states, He paid the price for our sins.  That is, through His suffering He triggered the compassion of all the elements in the Universe, such that mercy does not rob justice but satisfies its demands.</p>
<p> 6.  The demands of justice (i.e. of all the intelligences of the Universe) require that sinful people cannot rise to become gods unless:</p>
<p> a.  They have a broken heart and contrite spirit and repent of all their sins the best they can.</p>
<p> b.  Love God with all their hearts, might, and minds, and their neighbor as themselves, obeying all the ordinances and covenants of the Gospel.</p>
<p> c.  The Savior, who suffered innocently the most horrible pains to the point of bleeding from every pore of His body, pleads before the Father to let those who believe in Him return home and become as they are.  This pleading is not for the Father&#8217;s benefit; rather it triggers the compassion within the intelligences of the Universe, such that they say in essence: &#8220;If they mean that much to you, Oh Jehovah, then let them come up and we will continue to honor you and the Father.&#8221;</p>
<p> That&#8217;s how it works, not the quid pro quo reconciliation as is commonly understood.  I don&#8217;t expect you to understand what I just presented.  It took me three times through Dr. Skousen&#8217;s audio tape to begin to understand it.  Do get his tape and prayerfully ponder it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ebp		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ebp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34495#comment-34583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34565&quot;&gt;Brother Blums&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for sharing this talk.  I love the scriptural references - it gives me much to ponder.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34565">Brother Blums</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this talk.  I love the scriptural references &#8211; it gives me much to ponder.</p>
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		<title>
		By: creative_dude		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34581</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[creative_dude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2015 08:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34495#comment-34581</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34565&quot;&gt;Brother Blums&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you sir, for adding that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34565">Brother Blums</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you sir, for adding that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brother Blums		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/why-did-christ-have-to-atone-for-our-sins-why-cant-we-just-do-it-ourselves/#comment-34565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brother Blums]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2015 07:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=34495#comment-34565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I personally love the way Cleon Skousen explained it in his talk The Atonement. https://rcronk.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/a-personal-search-for-the-meaning-of-the-atonement/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally love the way Cleon Skousen explained it in his talk The Atonement. <a href="https://rcronk.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/a-personal-search-for-the-meaning-of-the-atonement/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://rcronk.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/a-personal-search-for-the-meaning-of-the-atonement/</a></p>
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