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	<title>
	Comments on: Who is the woman and the dragon spoken of in Revelation?	</title>
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	<description>Moral answers to everyday concerns, curiosities, and uncertainties.  Gramps considers all questions on all topics from all sources.</description>
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		<title>
		By: braithie		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/woman-dragon-spoken-revelation/#comment-35623</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[braithie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=24012#comment-35623</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Do you have the references for the times you said Joseph Smith taught?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have the references for the times you said Joseph Smith taught?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: srsmith		</title>
		<link>https://askgramps.org/woman-dragon-spoken-revelation/#comment-31913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[srsmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2014 04:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://en.elds.org/askgramps-org/?p=24012#comment-31913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What if the beast, the horns, and the heads represent specific nations?  For example, the horns must be the same as the horns on Daniel’s beast.  And Daniel’s beast must represent a sequence
of nations throughout the ages.  A general theme in Chapters 2, 7, 8, and 11 of the Book of Daniel is the sequence of nations through the ages. 

Both Daniel&#039;s and John&#039;s beast rise out of the sea, are represented by the same animals (lion, bear, and leopard), subdue the saints (the apostasy) for the same amount of time (3.5 years = 42 months, which also equals 1260 days), and have ten horns.  In Daniel the lion, bear, and leopard represent Babylon, Persians and Medes, and Grecia.  The beast with iron teeth represents the Roman Empire.  The horns represent the kingdoms of Europe. 

History tells us that Daniel’s beast with ten horns wasn’t complete until the Lombard’s invaded what was to become Italy in 570 AD, and became the tenth horn.  1260 years later (in 1830) the woman came out of the wilderness, and the church was restored. John said his beast with ten horns forced the woman into the wilderness for 1260 days, which Joseph changed to years. Same beast.

John added heads to his beast to give us another sequence of nations: 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 

In the scriptures “mountains” represent nations.  Five nations preceded John.  The Roman Empire was the nation that “is” at John’s time.  And one nation was still to come – a sequence of nations. 

Going back from John are Grecia, Persians and Medes, and Babylon. Before Babylon was Assyria and Egypt. These must be the five nations that had fallen before John’s time.  One more nation was to come after, which must be different than the European kingdoms represented by the horns. 

John must have used the heads to represent a specific sequence of nations in order to emphasize the split in the Roman Empire in 395 AD.  Rome became the center of the Western kingdom and Constantinople became the center of the Eastern.  Constantinople was conquered in the 1400’s by the Muslims.  The Muslims must
be the seventh head. 

The Muslims lost power in 1923.  They are now becoming strong
again.  John tells us this would happen: 

Rev. 13:3 “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to
death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” 

All the world wonders at how powerful the Muslim nations have become today.  John is even more specific about this in Rev.
17:10-11: 

Rev. 17:10 “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” 

The seventh king continues for a short space. In our context, this would be the Muslim nation “that was.”  The Muslim nation then became the beast that “is not” in 1923 when the caliphate was defeated.  The Muslim nation has regained its strength and is now “the eighth.”  It is also “of the seven” because it was the seventh. 

In Rev. 13:12 John says another beast arises with two horns that “exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him.”  In Rev. 17:9-14 John emphasizes this by saying the seventh head (which comes back as the eighth) and the ten horns “shall give their power and strength unto the (second) beast.”  This is exactly what is happening today.  

The European nations are becoming one of the horns on the second beast and the Muslims are becoming the other.  The Muslim horn is already causing that “as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed” (Rev. 13:15).  The nations of the west are already exerting financial control symbolized by the mark that is necessary for all men to buy or sell. 

This also explains why the second beast “causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed” (Rev. 13:12).  One of the horns on the
second beast is the head whose deadly wound was healed. 

Wow, once I get started I don’t know when to stop. But now I am done, so this is me stopping.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the beast, the horns, and the heads represent specific nations?  For example, the horns must be the same as the horns on Daniel’s beast.  And Daniel’s beast must represent a sequence<br />
of nations throughout the ages.  A general theme in Chapters 2, 7, 8, and 11 of the Book of Daniel is the sequence of nations through the ages. </p>
<p>Both Daniel&#8217;s and John&#8217;s beast rise out of the sea, are represented by the same animals (lion, bear, and leopard), subdue the saints (the apostasy) for the same amount of time (3.5 years = 42 months, which also equals 1260 days), and have ten horns.  In Daniel the lion, bear, and leopard represent Babylon, Persians and Medes, and Grecia.  The beast with iron teeth represents the Roman Empire.  The horns represent the kingdoms of Europe. </p>
<p>History tells us that Daniel’s beast with ten horns wasn’t complete until the Lombard’s invaded what was to become Italy in 570 AD, and became the tenth horn.  1260 years later (in 1830) the woman came out of the wilderness, and the church was restored. John said his beast with ten horns forced the woman into the wilderness for 1260 days, which Joseph changed to years. Same beast.</p>
<p>John added heads to his beast to give us another sequence of nations: </p>
<p>Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.<br />
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. </p>
<p>In the scriptures “mountains” represent nations.  Five nations preceded John.  The Roman Empire was the nation that “is” at John’s time.  And one nation was still to come – a sequence of nations. </p>
<p>Going back from John are Grecia, Persians and Medes, and Babylon. Before Babylon was Assyria and Egypt. These must be the five nations that had fallen before John’s time.  One more nation was to come after, which must be different than the European kingdoms represented by the horns. </p>
<p>John must have used the heads to represent a specific sequence of nations in order to emphasize the split in the Roman Empire in 395 AD.  Rome became the center of the Western kingdom and Constantinople became the center of the Eastern.  Constantinople was conquered in the 1400’s by the Muslims.  The Muslims must<br />
be the seventh head. </p>
<p>The Muslims lost power in 1923.  They are now becoming strong<br />
again.  John tells us this would happen: </p>
<p>Rev. 13:3 “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to<br />
death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” </p>
<p>All the world wonders at how powerful the Muslim nations have become today.  John is even more specific about this in Rev.<br />
17:10-11: </p>
<p>Rev. 17:10 “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.<br />
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” </p>
<p>The seventh king continues for a short space. In our context, this would be the Muslim nation “that was.”  The Muslim nation then became the beast that “is not” in 1923 when the caliphate was defeated.  The Muslim nation has regained its strength and is now “the eighth.”  It is also “of the seven” because it was the seventh. </p>
<p>In Rev. 13:12 John says another beast arises with two horns that “exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him.”  In Rev. 17:9-14 John emphasizes this by saying the seventh head (which comes back as the eighth) and the ten horns “shall give their power and strength unto the (second) beast.”  This is exactly what is happening today.  </p>
<p>The European nations are becoming one of the horns on the second beast and the Muslims are becoming the other.  The Muslim horn is already causing that “as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed” (Rev. 13:15).  The nations of the west are already exerting financial control symbolized by the mark that is necessary for all men to buy or sell. </p>
<p>This also explains why the second beast “causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed” (Rev. 13:12).  One of the horns on the<br />
second beast is the head whose deadly wound was healed. </p>
<p>Wow, once I get started I don’t know when to stop. But now I am done, so this is me stopping.</p>
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